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    • #11005
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Hi
      Can anyone help me determine the age of some hawk bells I have.They are approx 3/4 inch in diameter and have the loose wire
      loop but instead of both ends of the loop being inserted into a single hole, there are two holes, one for each end of the loop.Also
      the loop is angled rather than being round.They don’t appear to be brass unless a brass coating has worn off.
      I’d like to believe they are pre 1900 but I don’t know enough about them. Any advice would be appreciated
      thanks,
      Dave
      -01064-

    • #14221
      hjlong3
      Participant

      We really need a picture in order to be of help on this one. Are they steel (do they stick to a magnet?)? If not, they are probably brass. I presume that they are pressed out of thin sheet metal and are not cast.
      Harry Long, MD

    • #14222
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Hi Harry,
      I’m new at this and I don’t know how to attach a picture, I have one on my personal PC…maybe I could send it to you via your E-Mail address.?
      The bells are not cast but made of pressed metal, I’ll test them tonight with a magnet.My concern is that they’re attached to a Native American artifact which I’m trying to authenticate as being pre 1900 but the bells make me suspicious as I’ve never seen
      the two holes for the loop or the triangular shape of the loop on old bells.
      thanks for your help. Dave

      PS my regular e-mail address is DCASTELL@MMO.COM

    • #14223
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      @CRAZYMAN wrote:

      Hi Harry,
      I’m new at this and I don’t know how to attach a picture, I have one on my personal PC…maybe I could send it to you via your E-Mail address.?
      The bells are not cast but made of pressed metal, I’ll test them tonight with a magnet.My concern is that they’re attached to a Native American artifact which I’m trying to authenticate as being pre 1900 but the bells make me suspicious as I’ve never seen
      the two holes for the loop or the triangular shape of the loop on old bells.
      thanks for your help. Dave

      PS my regular e-mail address is DCASTELL@MMO.COM

      Dear Dave,

      If you would like to send a picture or pictures of your bells to me at coordinator@americanbell.org, I’d be happy to post them on the forum for you.

      Admin (Carolyn)

    • #14224
      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Here are Dave’s hawk bells!

      Dave originally sent me this message:

      I’m trying to determine the age of some hawk bells that are attached to an American Indian Artifact. The bells are made in two halves and look like old hawk bells although they are not brass. The part where I need help is the wire loop…instead of it being loosely inserted into a single hole, there are two samll holes and each end of the wire is loosely inserted into each. When was this type of bell first made ? thank you for your help. Dave

      Admin (Carolyn)

    • #14225
      hjlong3
      Participant

      These were made by Bevin Brothers in East Hampton, CT and were available as late as the 1960s. These appear older as the more modern ones had a round loop. They should be brass and were pressed out of brass sheeting.
      Harry Long, MD

    • #14226
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Hi Harry,
      Thanks for the reply….do you by chance know when they first were made ? I tried what you suggested and tested
      them with a magnet and they are strongly attracted to it.
      thanks,
      Dave

    • #14227
      Garry
      Participant

      I found you have to be careful when you test with a magnet. Most of the clappers or balls inside are iron and get attracted too. Be sure that it isn’t that you are seeing when you test with a magnet!

      Garry

    • #14228
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Garry,
      I tried it again and its definitely the bell housing itself as well as the ball inside that attracts the magnet.Is it possible that a non brass bell is as old as pre 1900 ?
      thanks,
      Dave

    • #14229
      hjlong3
      Participant

      If the bells hold a magnet, they are pressed out of sheet steel with a brass wash. Robert Watrous who knows more about the NN Hill Manufacturing Company and its successor, Bevin Brothers had a nice description of hawk bells in this forum in February 2009 that you may wish to access. He feels that these were probably made by the NN Hill Manufacturing Company in the late 1800s. As I mentioned, these bells were made into the early 1960s and were sold by Bevin Brothers. The bells pictured in your thread appear to be from the late 1800s.
      Harry Long, MD

    • #14230
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Harry,
      Thank you very much.
      Dave

    • #14231
      Robert Watrous
      Participant

      I saw the post and looked at the photos. I didn’t respond to the post right away
      because I couldn’t add much to the discussion. While I’m familiar with the
      early brass versions and the newer ones with the slotted holes for attaching
      them to things, I’m not familiar with steel ones with the loop angled as in
      your photos. I have the brass ones with the rounded hoops, and these were
      used on some bell toys made in East Hampton CT. I also have a Sterling
      Silver bell made in a similar way by Watrous Manufacturing Co. in Wallingford Connecticut.
      My focus is on bell toys which occasionally used hawk bells, and
      sterling silver bells by Watrous Manufacturing Co.. I just don’t have any
      definitive information on the manufacturer or date of your angled wire
      style. Keep us posted if you
      find any info.

      There is a sleigh bell collector and seller you may want to contact, DeeAnna Weed and Chuck Kelly at
      http://classicbells.com/index.htm coyote@classicbells.com Perhaps they
      have seen thses in a catalog.

      I’ve attached a photo of a string of hawk bells I have in my collection. They have the rounded loop. Also attached is a bell toy by Gong Bell of the Captain and the Kids. One of the kids holds a hawk bell. As the toy is pulled across the floor the boy rocks and the bell rings.

    • #14232
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Bob,
      Thanks for the pictures. I’ll let you know if I find out anything.
      Dave

    • #14233
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      Bob,
      I believe I have the answer! I tried a different route and researched American Indian Authenticators /Collectors.
      Preston Miller and Carolyn Corey have written a couple of books on the subject of Native American artifact collecting
      and authenticating.If you can find their 1997 book entitled “The Four Winds Guide to Indian Artifacts”,they describe
      these bells on page 189.I contacted Preston and he said these are new bells that appeared on the market about ten
      years ago and were made by the Crazy Crow Trading Post in Texas.They are often artificially aged to make them appear
      old on artifacts.
      Regards,
      Dave

    • #14234
      CRAZYMAN
      Member

      HI,
      Correction on my former post…the bells were made FOR the Crazy Crow Trading Post not BY them.

      Dave

    • #14235
      Chiefken4
      Member

      Sir: After looking at the picture of your bell, it is not old, and looks like some one heated it a bit to make it look old. The Hawk bells on old Indian items either had the stamped loop or a single hole with rounded wire loop. In research I have also seen very small cast brass bells, 1 inch or a little smaller and most have the tang with hole for attachment. Most hawk bells were All brass except for the piece that makes the bell ring some steel some cast iron. Take a look at “Crazy Crow Trading Post” an you can see the hawk bells that they have for sale which are like yours, steel, brassplating, and the solid angular loop. I hope I have not offended you but I’ve been making old time American Indian Regalia for 54 years. Hawk Bells were not only spherical but some were rounded oblong shaped, flatened Round, and a few other round shapes. Solid brass hawk bells are still available from some traders in Germany. Sincerely Ken Alling

    • #14236
      Chiefken4
      Member

      Dave another one to contact is Robert Brewer, He is in Illinois I think and he is very accurate and knows his stuff. He has known Preston Miller for quite some time. Another is Scott Thompson, he lives a bit north of Spokane Wa. I’ve known Scott for about 38 years, he has written about Hawk bells. Well now that you are bogged down with information find out all you can about these niffty little brass bells….Ken…..ps check out Plains Indians History Cultures at Yahoo Groups, they have some people there that really know stuff.

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